Muhammad Tipu, Pakistani Consul General to Chengdu. (Economic Daily-China Economic Net/Wang Zhongqiang)
by Meng Lingjuan
The following article is the second part of the interview with Muhammad Tipu, Pakistani Consul General to Chengdu.
Gold ores discovered in Pakistan, Alipay expected
Reporter: Chromite, you’ve just mentioned, is Pakistan’s largest export category to China’s southwestern area?
Consul General: Yes, Pakistan has a huge mining sector. But you know it needs a lot investments. So if Chinese companies want to go to Pakistan, and invest in mining sector, or do some joint ventures with the Pakistani companies, then we have the resources, and China needs every kinds of mines. Sichuan Geological Bureau, a very big SOE in Sichuan, went to explore Pakistan mining sector. You gave only one example, but I think we have many mines in Pakistan, such as copper, gold. Reko Diq (located in Baluchistan province, rich in porphyry copper and gold mines). I don’t know if you have heard the name, it has a huge potential.
(when I compare with the trade categories and exports to Sichuan between the two countries, I noticed the mines, besides chromite, there are lead, zinc, etc. Because in the total volume of trade between China and Pakistan, the top export is yarn.)
Consul General: Yes, Pakistan has huge national resources, I think we have to diversify cotton and yarn exports. It is very important. We have brought a lot of reforms in our tax industry. And at the same time, we have to go into other sectors, like mining, beef, and of course e-commerce.
Some young entrepreneurs--Alibaba has come to Pakistan. I think the financial payment system of WeChat is one of the best in the world. If Pakistan ultimately has to embrace fintech, I think that Sichuan is very important for us. Because Chengdu has a lot of IT products, and Pakistan can find its way in various industries. It’s a process, we have already started.
Reporter: According to reports, Alibaba bought Daraz, the largest e-commerce company in Pakistan, and Pakistan’s e-commerce volume has doubled last year?
Consul General: Yes, so I think Daraz will also introduce the Alipay system in the future. In fact, many people in the financial sector of Pakistan want to visit the financial sector in Chengdu. They came there last month. I told Pakistan's financial people that the financial sector in Shenzhen, Guangdong is very important, while nowadays Chengdu is getting more and more important in this regard, they need to find partners in Chengdu and Chongqing to achieve synergy effect.
Pakistan has no debt default
(When it comes to payment, we know that payment methods are a key factor in the e-commerce sector. By far, cash is still the most common means of payment in Pakistan.)
Consul General: Yes, because you know, like WeChat, it has a very sophisticated financial system, which is connected to modern technology and tools. In Pakistan, a large part of the economy is undocumented. Now, we are gradually improving the entire economic system, revenue stream and promoting tax reforms. These have already been implemented. Although they are relatively slow, we will eventually use these reforms to stimulate economic growth. In fact, very few people know that Pakistan has never defaulted on its loan obligations. Although Pakistan sometimes needs to deal with domestic challenges, its economy is very resilient and robust.
As we know, Pakistan has had a very difficult period in the past 10 years, we have experienced wars and other conflicts. But even at that time, our economic performance was very good. Similarly, during the global economic recession, when the global economic growth slowed to 1%-2%, Pakistan still achieved an economic growth rate of 5%-6%.
Pakistan’s “learning curve” shorter than China’s, further growth to achieve
(You’ve talked about development of e-commerce. Like 2G, 3G, 4G, China is realizing these developments step by step, but I think Pakistan's network development process will be shortened and achieve further take-off.)
Consul General: Yes, this is one part of the learning curve. I mentioned that our learning curve is shorter than China. With good policies and hard work, technology allows us to learn a certain skill quickly and make us achieve further growth and increase in gains. Look at China's learning process, over the past 30 years, in just 30 years, China has jumped directly from this position to the top. Why? Because technology has changed many areas.
(We believe that Pakistan will also achieve rapid development in the next 30 years.)
Consul General: This is exactly what I hope, and I believe we will usher in this day. Pakistan and China are iron brothers. We are not only concerned with economic growth, but we are also committed to creating a safe and stable regional environment. Now that China and Pakistan are already engage with each other in a whole range of sectors, we are the founding members of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, and we are the pioneer countries of the Belt and Road Initiative. At the same time, the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor is a very successful project. Our Prime Minister is very impressed with China's development and poverty reduction model, and I am also deeply encouraged by him.
I want to share with you a speech he once made. He said that when he first came to China, he was left with a deep impression, but this time when he came again, he was even more impressed. He said that this country amazed him last time, at that time, China was so hospitable, so generous, so impeccable, so he thought that was the best time. But this time when he came, it was even better. He thought social terms, cultural behavior and understanding are the power of China, a country that always amaze people so much.
(Yes. The speech of the Prime Minister is really impressive.)
Consul General: He's generous. Actually, Pakistani leadership is very inspired by China.
(The speech of the Prime Minister has combined both high level decisions and grass root development.)
Consul General: Yes, he's our spiritual figure.
Prime Minister hopes China would build more SEZs in Pakistan, no space in M3 is a good signal
Reporter: I remember once he said that he would “liberate” trade and investment system, remove “constraints”, and he wanted to introduce private companies into CPEC.
Consul General: Yes, I think liberalization is going to be very critical, because Chinese investment or other investment from other countries can only come when we have a very structured and stable investment regime. Now our government is taking a lot of measures. Our tax policy is going to create a lot of incentives for Chinese businessmen. Compare to China, the labor is very cheap and the land is very cheap in Pakistan. We are trying to improve our regular trade framework. Once we have a very clear, regular trade framework, then I think Chinese are going to be very confident that there are a lot of economic opportunities in Pakistan. Actually, our prime minister hopes their Chinese partners would build more special economic zones in Pakistan. Because once the first economic zone is going to be built, then the second and the most important part of China Pakistan economic corridor will kick in. We have infrastructure, it's a great infrastructure. I think energy infrastructure and road construction are the first critical step, the second critical step is the establishment of special economic zones and the relocation of Chinese industry to Pakistan. it's complicated, so we need to engage, we need to have discussion, we need to create commonality to realize win-win cooperation.
(I heard that there is no space in M3, right?)
Consul General: Yes, that's true, it's a good sign. But we still have a lot of land, we are in process of improving our trade framework and the policy regime. Once that is done, I am very confident that many more Chinese will go to Pakistan to invest?
(The Prime Minister has said that he encourages the active participation of private sector. Does this mean that the government has taken the lead in the past?)
Consul General: Yes, the Prime Minister said this. I think he meant to encourage the private sector participate actively for flourishing, while the government will play an important role.
Pakistan needs to learn from every country, including South Korea
(Prime Minister also mentioned that we better share best practices with other Belt and Road countries. Could you please give some examples?)
Consul General: As I have already spoken to you that we are living in a global economy. Some of the BRI countries are also very competitive. So Pakistan needs to understand that Pakistan need to learn from every country. So once we know the best practices of other countries, we can compete better in the economic environment. And then in next decade, the competition is going to be even more intense, so we need to better prepare ourselves. We need to learn best practices from all of the countries. And Pakistan has a long way to go in terms of doing internal restructuring and reforming its economy. We can only realize that when our own learning curve is better. Belt and Road has almost eighty plus countries and some central issues concern part of Middle East and European countries. So we need to learn from everyone.
(Last year, we held a CIIE seminar in South Korea, because it is the No.1 with a large export share to China. Our trade volume is about 3,13 billion US dollars bilaterally. South Korea has lots of the know-how or expertise about how to export.)
Consul General: China has Tianjin, Shenzhen, Chengdu and many other cities which have very unique products and unique experiences. So Pakistan can learn from many regions of China. And of course, as you have rightly pointed out, South Korea, it's a very important country from which we can do learn a lot.
Pakistan has to do more actually, and I need more countries to come to Pakistan. It has so much strength that you know Pakistan could become a global competitive market for the whole world. This is what I believe in and we can do that. Meanwhile, We have problems. We had a complex, delicate geopolitical environment. But I think, at the same time, as I am repeatedly saying, our learning curve is getting a lot better. And that is really what matters.
Chengdu Consulate to launch activities in September, China Economic Net most welcome
Reporter: Please tell me some of your plans this year. Are there some events in September?
Consul General: Yes, there is going to be Pakistan cultural week. We are going to hold it with the cooperation of Sichuan government, Sichuan University and Chengdu Chamber of Commercial Services. We will also try to promote trade and economic relations. We might be able to do a think tank event in Chengdu. So this is going to be heading somewhere in September. And we are preparing and the programs have not finalized yet. We will do that close to August, then we will really know what sort of things are ultimately going to happen. So we are in the planning phase now.
(We do some economic programs now. We also try to play some role in trade between the two countries. )
Consul General: You're most welcome to join us in the effort. Your media can come, if you want to speak there and you can share your experiences of Pakistan. You seem to be more knowledgeable than I am about Pakistan. So you're most welcome to join us there and let us know. It's a collective effort.
(Since we are economic media, as I talk with Pakistan people, they say Pakistan people don't know that China wants to increase their exports, and have no idea of Pakistani agricultural products.)
Consul General: Yes, that's true. I think a lot of sentiment is based out of lack of understanding. We need to create better understanding intellectually and objectively. I do not believe in the headline news. Headline news are very dangerous. You have to understand deep down what is actually going on. You have to have a systematic understanding of the processes. Only then you can conclude what is true and what is false. While, you're most welcome to join us for the September event.
Pakistan--one of the most generous nations in the world, foreign trade can promote tourism industry
Reporter: What kind of role do you think media should play?
Consul General: I think we do can play a very important role, and the most important thing is to tell the real strength of Pakistan. I think one export of Pakistan could boost tourism industry in this sense that once people come to Pakistan they will learn about Pakistan. They will go back and sell Pakistan in their countries. So I think you can do a lot better to promote Pakistan's tourism, to promote tourism between southwest of china and Pakistan. Some Pakistani handicrafts are very traditional, and our culture is very powerful. So media has a limitless potential, but the most important thing you can do is to present the real face of Pakistan that is tolerant, a progressive, a beautiful country with a lot of potential that had done amazingly great job by defeating terrorism. It had a very difficult geopolitical environment, and Pakistanis are one of the most generous people you will come across the world. And the Chinese people have a great deal of different experiences when they are inside Pakistan. Therefore, I would request you to present the real face of Pakistan and help to strengthen this relationship.
(I will try our best to do it.)
Consul General: Okay, thank you very much. You know, it was the longest interview. I really enjoy it.
Postscript: After the interview, the photographer wanted to take a few shots of his working condition, Tipu invited the photographer to walk into his office. Once sit at the computer, Tipu picked up the TV remote control and turned on the TV to the channel of Pakistan National TV.
(Translator: Chen Lei; Editor: Chen Jinglin)
（Editor:陈婧琳）
